[00:00:00] Adrienne Donnelly: Welcome to the Seed to Success podcast, where we deep dive into the strategies, stories, and smart decisions that help VAs and OBMs grow and thrive. I'm your host Adrienne Donnelly, and whether you're just starting out or looking for ways to take your business to the next level, you are in the right place.
[00:00:19] Adrienne Donnelly: Thank you to our episode sponsor, the VA Lead Network. If you are looking for high quality vetted client opportunities, the VA Lead network is where you need [00:00:30] to be. You can preview available client opportunities on their website valeadnetwork.com.au, and as a listener of the pod, you can enjoy 30% off your first month or year as a new member with the code Friends of seed.
[00:00:48] Adrienne Donnelly: That's all one word, all capitals, friends of seed. Now let's get into today's conversation.
[00:00:57] Adrienne Donnelly: Hello, welcome [00:01:00] back to another episode of the podcast. This episode is a little bit different, uh, this is a Ask Me Anything style episode. So we put a call out to our free Facebook community, our social media following and our Inner circle members to see what a, what sort of advice, insights, information or tips that they are looking for in their business. So in today's episode, I am going to be answering [00:01:30] those questions for them, so let's jump in. The first question I had was around how do I manage client expectations and avoid scope creep? So scope creep is a great, term, which basically means that what you had ideally set out to achieve for the client has gone outside of the original scope.
[00:01:52] Adrienne Donnelly: And we often see this in retainer or project based models, and it's been [00:02:00] described as a slow slide into chaos. So I think for me the key is absolutely always communication and also documentation. If you're working with a client where both of you are somewhat unsure of how long this project or this piece of work or this deliverable is going to take, I think it's important just to have that conversation upfront with the client.
[00:02:24] Adrienne Donnelly: You're absolutely keen to work on it. It may be something you haven't done before or, [00:02:30] something that's a little bit different that you're working on with this client I think it's great just to be upfront with your client to say, let's just hash this out. What are we actually looking at here in terms of identifying what success looks like for this piece of work and this project, but also to be really comfortable to say, okay, we're not actually sure how long this is going to take and build that into your commercial model. So you might want to charge a percentage of the work up front [00:03:00] so that the second installment of the financial side of the agreement can be tweaked based on the actual deliverables.
[00:03:08] Adrienne Donnelly: We've also seen, I know a member of our community shared a great example where they were managing social media for a client. They were managing two platforms for the client. So let's just say it was LinkedIn and Facebook, and the client was wanting to then extend that and have their VA start also posting on Instagram. [00:03:30] So instead of just adding it in to the current agreement, the conversation was had with the client to say, yes, I'd absolutely love to help you with that. That is outside of our current agreement, so I can calculate what that would look like in terms of a revised agreement. Or we could, you know, look at other ways that we can make that work in our current agreement but we'll need to give something up to allow me to, have time to work on that.
[00:03:57] Adrienne Donnelly: But I think it's very much just about [00:04:00] communication with the client and if you start to see that you know, ongoing sort of scope creep each week or each month, they're just sort of asking you to do a little bit more than it is just about having those regular check-ins with your clients to make sure that you know the agreement is working for the client, sure. But also for you as a business owner in your own right, this is very much a partnership. With that you have with your client that needs to have regular check-in, whether that's [00:04:30] monthly, quarterly, every six months, but regular check-ins with your clients to make sure that that agreement and that scope of works, that service agreement is actually still working for both people.
[00:04:41] Adrienne Donnelly: I think that keeps it sustainable and respectable, and then there's no surprises for you or the client. The last thing we would ever want to be doing is, you know, sending an invoice to a client that they're not expecting and that we've had no dialogue or no communication on, and vice [00:05:00] versa for you. You wanna make sure that you know exactly what your clients are expecting so that you can manage all your individual client's needs and continue to offer them that incredible, level of service. I think it's important to also have those sorts of clauses written into your contract so that that agreement can be, tweaked and modified as required as that work evolves. You know, often what we start out working on with the client then evolves [00:05:30] over the months and years that we work with them over time, and as our relationship with the clients grows, our own skill sets grow our clients' businesses evolve. So by having that written into the contract is a really great way to ensure that both you and the client are always on the same page.
[00:05:49] Adrienne Donnelly: The next question was, how do you know when it's time to raise your prices or move away from hourly rates? And this is a great and a very common question, and [00:06:00] having my own VA business for almost 10 years. Something that I've also, you know, asked myself and worked with my business coach on over the years. Similar to the first question that we were talking about, I think it's really important to make sure that in our contracts we have, a clause in there around regular reviewing of our pricing structure, whether that's an hourly basis, whether that's packages, retainer, model, project fees. I think it's really important to make sure that [00:06:30] that's written into the contract so that both you and the client know that you do have that written agreement, that those rates will change. And for us as VA and OBM business owners. You know, the costs of our business are going up year on year.
[00:06:45] Adrienne Donnelly: Our subscriptions are going up our insurances are going up all the different prices and all the other things that we pay for in our business, they go up each year. So it's so important to make sure that your prices are reflecting that. So I would definitely [00:07:00] encourage at least an annual review.
[00:07:03] Adrienne Donnelly: The third question we received was, what do you do when you're starting out and don't have any client testimonials? And this is a really, again, these are all great questions, but this is a great one and, something that actually popped up in our free seed Facebook community recently, because it is a struggle because we know we can do the work.
[00:07:28] Adrienne Donnelly: We've got the skills, we know [00:07:30] the systems, and we've got great intentions for our business, but sometimes without that social proof, you can feel as though you're sort of stuck in limbo at the start. Now, in my experience having run my own VA business, I have clients that have never asked for testimonials.
[00:07:47] Adrienne Donnelly: They've never read the testimonials or my LinkedIn profile or my Google My Business profile. But there have been other clients along the way that I've seen who have wanted to speak to my current clients as a little bit of a [00:08:00] sense check for them. So I think what has helped me in the past, and I have seen this work quite well for other VAs, is leaning into those relationships and those people that you may have already worked with, maybe offering them, you know, a short term, a low commitment project to people already in your network, even friends or former colleagues. We had this question, as I mentioned in our Facebook group a little while ago, and [00:08:30] actually a few years ago, um, on my social media, this came up and I posted about it on my story and I have loads and loads of people, tens of people respond, to that because what I see, and if I'm very honest, I don't love it as a business model, but I can understand that sometimes it's appropriate is for people offering to work for free in exchange of a testimonial, as I said. I don't personally love the [00:09:00] idea, and that comes from a place of believing that you should be paid for the work you do.
[00:09:07] Adrienne Donnelly: But I think at that time, a few years ago when this question came up, I was aware that, you know, maybe I have blind spots and I was really open to hearing other perspectives. And as I said, there was 30 or so people that responded to my story and some of the points that they raised were actually really valid, and I want to share some of those, some of the things that people were sharing is one, that there's [00:09:30] no guarantee that if you do work for free for somebody, that they're even going to leave that review.
[00:09:35] Adrienne Donnelly: So it may have been, um, you know, not a very worthwhile task, there is a chance it may attract the wrong type of clients. People that are just looking for a quick fix and free labor, basically free services. There's also some industries, where it's illegal, so that's obviously something to think about.
[00:09:56] Adrienne Donnelly: I think it can work quite well for product-based businesses where, [00:10:00] you know, you give someone the product to try. I don't know how well it translates for service-based businesses. But I think it's also important to remember that, if you're working for somebody, that you do deserve to be paid for that. Now, you may want to offer, as I mentioned, a lower rate, an introductory offer, something along those lines. I would definitely [00:10:30] lean more toward an introductory rate or a discounted rate if you are trying to get started, but have a very clear end point on that and have it again documented, written into agreements so that you don't get caught out and the work that you're doing, you are still being paid for, even if it is at a introductory rate and that is a great way for you to then build up some social proof in your business.
[00:10:59] Adrienne Donnelly: [00:11:00] The next question we had was about how I got started in the, VA industry. So as I mentioned before, my VA business Organised by Adrienne started in 2016, so almost 10 years ago now. My background was all in office management, operations management, I've been in EA and PA roles. So basically what I did was take those skills and those services that I had been offering to the people [00:11:30] within the businesses that I was working with and turned those into the services of my business. My first two clients were actually colleagues that I had worked with before we had all worked for a recruitment company, and at the time that I had left that company and took another role. They had both started their own businesses at the same time and because they had seen me working in that capacity as, in the recruitment company where I was in a internal role, I wasn't [00:12:00] actively, a recruiter. I was the office slash operations manager. So all of the things that they had seen me doing in the workplace, because they were my customers in that business, I wasn't working on actively recruiting for clients.
[00:12:13] Adrienne Donnelly: The internal staff were my customers. I basically, had already demonstrated to them those skills and those services that I was capable of providing. So when they went out on their own, they came to me and said, you know, some of those things that you were [00:12:30] doing, like helping with business cards, setting up emails, you know, finding different vendors that could support them as they set their business up with a website or social media.
[00:12:39] Adrienne Donnelly: They asked if I could help and sort of do that on the side while I was still working full time, which I was really happy to do, um, that business then grew and grew. They were quite well connected within the small business community and were singing my praises to other people in their world who were also starting [00:13:00] businesses at the same time, and asking them, you know, who did you use for this? Who did you use for that? So quickly that business grew through word of mouth. I let my current employer know, I was working full time at that time, I was actually commuting to my new job, which was about just over an hour away. So I'd get up really early in the morning about four o'clock, get ready for work.
[00:13:24] Adrienne Donnelly: Get on the freeway, commute down to where my, new job was based and there was a [00:13:30] cafe right next door to that business that opened really early. I'd sit there and work on my business, go to do my nine to five, and I'd get up early 'cause the freeway was a little bit quieter at that time, I'd do my nine to fiveeven in my lunch breaks, I'd go and sit in my car and work on the business, do client calls because I was getting some inquiries, and people wanting to come and work with me and for me to support them in their business. So then I would finish my day job, drive home, and then continue to work at home.
[00:13:59] Adrienne Donnelly: As I [00:14:00] said, that sort of grew and grew and within about three months, I let my current employer know I was looking to resign. And little did I know there was a large restructure happening in the business, that very same week and they sort of said, oh, you can't resign because this is the restructure that's happening and this is going to be the new role, and my role then included australia and New Zealand payroll. So they really couldn't do without that role, which for me, that actually meant I was in a great position of [00:14:30] negotiating. So I said to them, would they be open to me staying on three days a week with one of those days being from home while they found another solution given that this role was looking after payroll for all of Australia and New Zealand, and they agreed with a three month period.
[00:14:47] Adrienne Donnelly: So it started in the November, we had that conversation in the January and by the Easter in March of that year in early 2017 I resigned, completely from that job and went into [00:15:00] the business full time and my business looks so different now to what it was but in saying that, I still work with two female business owners, both in the region that I live here in New South Wales, that were two of my very first clients, and I still work as their VA and business manager now to this day. So that's a little bit about how I got started and, yeah, still very actively working in my, Organised by [00:15:30] Adrienne, my client facing business.
[00:15:32] Adrienne Donnelly: This is a really great question this next one, what habits should I build now to step into more of a CEO role later? My advice would be start out or start now how you want your business to be. Even if your business feels quite small, you only have a few clients, it's not, you know, you're not working at full capacity yet. Start how you [00:16:00] intend for your business to go. So if you're planning to grow, to bring in a team to expand your services, you really need to start thinking like a CEO or like a business owner or business manager now, and that means getting really comfortable with your systems, using wording so that your clients know that potentially it's not always going to be you, that is the one delivering or executing the services. Get very comfortable with delegating, with [00:16:30] trusting other people in your business and really thinking big picture.
[00:16:34] Adrienne Donnelly: There's quite a lot of our members within the inner circle who dedicate a portion of their week, their fortnight, their month to what they refer to as CEO time. Sometimes they'll engage a peer to do that session with, or it's just time that they have carved out in their business where they're actually working on their own business. If you're listening and you already have a business, I'm sure you know that [00:17:00] sometimes you think, oh, like the business is going great. I've got clients. My clients are happy. I'm billing great hours. I'm really happy with where I'm at financially, the work is really fulfilling. But you know, there may be some things in your business, you know, like your pricing, like your social media, like your marketing, like keeping your website up to date that have sort of fallen by the wayside because you're so busy servicing the clients.
[00:17:22] Adrienne Donnelly: You're not taking that time out to actually step back and work on the business, I think that's [00:17:30] really, really important to carve out time for your business, not just your clients, whether that's going to conferences, to working on personal or professional development or as we said, just, you know, putting a few hours in your diary.
[00:17:44] Adrienne Donnelly: Maybe it's weekly, fortnightly, monthly, maybe it's just quarterly where you are sitting, you're reviewing your finances, you're checking on your marketing, you're looking at the systems and processes in your business, you're reviewing your clients and you know, back to our question about [00:18:00] scope creep is looking to say, okay.
[00:18:02] Adrienne Donnelly: Are these clients still serving me? Am I happy? Is the client happy? Do I need to do a check-in with them? Is the current agreement still working? Is the scope of works or the service agreement still working for us all? But really holding that time in your diary, not letting clients book over the top of it, not letting family priorities come in over the top of it, and make sure that you've got that time set aside.
[00:18:28] Adrienne Donnelly: And also start [00:18:30] to think about how that work could potentially be done by someone else, especially if you're looking to grow and think, okay, well, if I was to bring in a team member, what parts of this business are totally reliant on me? What could be done by a system? What could be done by another team member?
[00:18:49] Adrienne Donnelly: Do I need to be the one doing this? Is this process still relevant? Is there a new technology that could actually make this process redundant now because [00:19:00] you know, a software that we are already using has a new feature, which we could actually do this process for me now, which has otherwise been a manual process.
[00:19:09] Adrienne Donnelly: So again, I think it's really important make sure you've got that time in the diary. Have an accountability buddy. You know, if you're in the inner circle, and we'll pop some information about the inner circle in the show notes if you're looking to explore that part of seed and our community is we'll often see people setting up time with each other to have a [00:19:30] session together and help, you know, keep each other accountable and work on goals because you can get really caught up in business, in life, in family, and looking after yourself and you know, all the other hats that you are wearing as a business owner. But it is super important, and this leads really well into our next question.
[00:19:49] Adrienne Donnelly: How do I future proof my business so I can take time off or handle unexpected life events. This has become such a huge priority for [00:20:00] me and a few of my really close VA friends, because you know what? Life will throw you curve balls, you will get sick, your loved ones will get sick. If you have children, they are going to need you.
[00:20:11] Adrienne Donnelly: You also need to make sure you are having time off. You're still seeing your friends, you're still exercising, you're going on family holidays. The best way to future proof a business is to build a business that isn't totally dependent on you. Now, as VAs and OBMs, we're providing a service, and that [00:20:30] service is often very reliant on our physical time, and that's where things like, downloadable products, courses, events, you know, any of those sorts of products or services that will be able to, allow you to provide a one to many type option, as a really great way to future proof your business. I also think on this point, it's really important to make sure that if there is something unexpected.[00:21:00]
[00:21:00] Adrienne Donnelly: That there's someone in your world, and I refer to it as a business next of kin, I was just actually talking to a friend about this this morning. Who can look after your business if something unexpected happens and you have to be out of your business for a period of time. Often we're working in our business on our own, and I know for me as someone who doesn't have a person in my household or is currently single. If something was to happen to me, knock wood, it doesn't. But the [00:21:30] reality is then there is a chance that something will happen to me, whether it's an illness, a accident, a family emergency, something like that and again, God willing this doesn't happen. But you know, the reality is, if that happened, there's no one in my world that, you know, up until recently would even know how to turn on my computer, what my passwords were, how to access my bank accounts, because they're all in my name.
[00:21:54] Adrienne Donnelly: I don't have a, you know, a significant partner or a husband or a wife or anyone like that [00:22:00] who's in my business that has access to that information. We're actually doing a masterclass on this exact topic in the Seed, Inner Circle membership group in our monthly masterclass offering because it's actually such a high risk position we're putting our businesses in.
[00:22:18] Adrienne Donnelly: So, both think about future proofing your business from a service offering and how those services can still continue to tick away if you are not there to actually deliver [00:22:30] them. But also from a risk management point of view, what happens if you are not physically, mentally, emotionally able to work in your business?
[00:22:39] Adrienne Donnelly: What needs to happen to make sure that your clients know when they're just not hearing? Crickets from you and that you've got someone who can communicate to your clients. Look, there's been an emergency and you know, often we as VAs play that role for our clients and we know how important it is. I've had that situation with clients over [00:23:00] the years where there has been a family emergency, and something that's come up, which means they are completely offline.
[00:23:06] Adrienne Donnelly: They cannot be involved in the business for a period of time. That may be a week, it may be a month, maybe six months, but we often play that role for our clients to let their customers and community and clients know that they're not available. So it's extremely important for us to also have that in our businesses.
[00:23:25] Adrienne Donnelly: Okay we are down to our last question for this [00:23:30] Ask Me Anything episode, and it's a I say this for every question, but they are really great questions. What's one of the best pieces of advice you've been given regarding running your own business?
[00:23:43] Adrienne Donnelly: And for me, it always comes back to having the right people in your corner. I cannot stress this enough, and that word community is foundational here at Seed. It is what we're all about and what our founder, Amy [00:24:00] was just totally all about in terms of building a community for those in our industry. And that I think is crucial, is surrounding, yourself by people who get it, but also surrounding yourself by experts who know the things that you don't yet know.
[00:24:21] Adrienne Donnelly: And by that I mean people that can help you with your business legals, people that can help you with your insurance, people that can help you with your finances and [00:24:30] working out your company structure, how you should be charging, what does that mean in terms of tax and superannuation and all of those things around our business.
[00:24:40] Adrienne Donnelly: If you are anything like me, my parents both are teachers or work within the school system. I didn't grow up in a family that had family businesses. So I had no experience in small businesses when I started my own almost a decade ago and I made some huge mistakes back then, which [00:25:00] if I had have asked the right questions and had the right people in my corner, that never would've happened.
[00:25:05] Adrienne Donnelly: And a great example was when my clients, my first few clients started asking me, and I remember this vividly. My first few clients asked me how much I charged, and this. It kind of sometimes feels a bit embarrassing, but then I think, what would I say if someone else told me this? And I would say, yeah, we don't know what we don't know.
[00:25:27] Adrienne Donnelly: So what I did was went into my [00:25:30] inbox, found a payslip, saw what my hourly rate was, and that was the number I told them and that was a big mistake because I didn't realise not having business experience. Of all the extra costs that I would need to pay. I just didn't even think about it. Now it seems really obvious, but it didn't seem obvious to me then, and maybe I'm silly or foolish, but that is my story and that is the reality.
[00:25:56] Adrienne Donnelly: I didn't think about. Okay, I need to pay my own tax. I need to pay [00:26:00] my own super. I'm gonna need to be, you know, I need to go and buy a laptop. I need to pay my own phone bills, all of the stationary I need, or subscriptions I need. All of those needed to go on top of my costs, so not just an hourly rate, but my actual charge out rate.
[00:26:15] Adrienne Donnelly: So they are, some of the things that I think are so important when you're starting your own business is to have the right people around you, not only the experts, but other people in the industry that just get [00:26:30] it. We had a local VA coffee catch up recently here in Newcastle where we have a beautiful, beautiful VA community and all of us at the end went, oh gosh it's just so nice to talk to people who get it and you know, we can talk to our family and friends about what we do, but just having people who totally understand the world that we are playing in. I think that is the best piece of advice that I was given and that I would pass on to anyone else is get the [00:27:00] right people around you because you really are going to need them.
[00:27:06] Adrienne Donnelly: Thank you so much. I hope that this advice has been useful. I hope this episode has been helpful and given you some great things to think about. If you ever have any questions, need any support, need a sounding board or need again, just to talk to someone who gets it, please know that you could always reach out to me and the Seed team via our website, our social media, or emails.
[00:27:29] Adrienne Donnelly: We're happy to [00:27:30] support you however you need. We have such a strong passion for our industry and a desire to see your business thrive, and for you to be enjoying your business and loving what you do. Please let us know if there's anything we can ever, ever help with, and we will be back in your ears again soon.
[00:27:52] Adrienne Donnelly: Thank you for listening to another episode of Seed to Success. Make sure you're following along so you never miss an episode. [00:28:00] If you have friends in the VA or OBM space, feel free to share this episode if you think they may get something out of it too. A very special thank you to today's sponsor, the VA Lead Network.
[00:28:12] Adrienne Donnelly: For more information about their amazing business, head to valeadnetwork.com.au and make sure you check out the episode description for a very special bonus from our friends at the VA Lead Network.
